Comments on BiPole 3 Campaign

Comments on the "MB: New Power Line: East not West" campaign have been moved to this blog post.  Readers may add their own comments below.

 

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About The Video...

The video got off to a bad start with the "mess" in the first ten seconds.  Please avoid that type of humor in the future.

Road building costs

I was just listening to CBC and heard about your site. I am a retired road engineer from the Kenora area and I'd like to share important information that has been overlooked.

An expensive project like this is very complex and none of the information I've seen included the cost of construction roads. If the cost of the project is the main reason for opposing a western route please consider the following.

In 1992 I consulted on a project with the Ontarion Ministry of Transportation (MTO) and Manitoba Highways(MH) to build an all-weather road from Reddit through Werner lake and connecting to Manitoba at  through Nopiming Park Preserve to Lac du Bonnet. Another permanent route was investigated to Island lake, running through Manitoba, north from Lac du Bonnet or through Ontario running north from Werner Lake.

MH's estimate to run what they called 'the east side road' was $950 million dollars in 1992, by my rough estimate that cost today would be over $1.5 billion.

The MTO road came in slightly lower at $870 million in 1992 dollars (about 1.4 billion today)

The terrain through this part of the country is incredibly difficult to build in. Half of the land is swamp and requires millions of tonnes of fill to build a road bed. What land is dry is granite and very irregular requiring extensive blasting. Our project review showed that over 75% of the roadway would have to be either filled or blasted. VERY expensive.

What I know of the geography in Manitoba, the mainly dry, flat and easy to excavate route in the western part of the province would be a less costly location to build roads, but most of this construction wouldn't be needed since the province already has many highways and high quality secondary roads in the area.

If a powerline is to run down the east side of manitoba it would need to run in a straight line, it could not meander around obstacles like bogs and granite ridges as a road could, but a road would be needed to bulid the line and allow year round access to the line. parts of the road could be built cheaply in a temporary fashion, but the nature of the land means even the most basic road would cost as much as a billion dollars. In the west you have provincial highways and well built roads that could support construction equipment and permit easy access to the transmission line right-of-way.

Keep in mind my rough estimate of $1.5 billion for a road up the east only goes to Island lake, the access roads for the line would need to go further north to Gillam.

Finally, has anyone considered a submerged line under the lake? Many countrries in Europe like the Netherlands and Sweden have used underwater sea cables with success and even though the cable costs are very high no towers or roads would need to be built.

Hope my 2 cents help

 

the govt. is our taxpayers federation

the only federations of taxpayers that are decided by all interested citizens of voting age are the various levels of govt.

special-interest groups should choose names that more accurately describe their agendas.

Posted: January 22, 2010
Topic: Manitoba

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The biggest problem with your

The biggest problem with your information is it lacks alot of facts about both the east side and west side choices. First, the east side just below the nelson river is untouched boreal forest that has no roads or transmission lines, never been logged or explored for minerals. The west side has been logged along the entire proposed line at one point over the last 40 years,so there is little to no old growth forests on the west side route, unlike the east side route.

Secondly, the route will travel very close to existing transmission lines that are not High Voltage, unlike the east side that has no lines at all.

Thirdly, the line will go through agricultural land, which after attnding forums, the farmers want as long as it goes through their land and they receive monies for that.

You guys should try to be a little less biased, especially with the old guy on the interview, who is quite uniformed about all the facts, not just a few.

Some "common sense" Folks, it's 2011, there's a far better way!

Manitoba is blessed with a "common sense" natural route to bring Manitoba's Hydro Electric from the North to the South... Manitoba's great north - south Lakes, Lake Winnipeg (north and south basins), Lakes Winnipegosis and Lake Manitoba, are natural highways to bring Manitoba's abundant Hydro Electric power to the south...  The technology certainly exists in this day and age...  I'm sure any engineering student worth his/her salt at the U of M can gather the facts and see the clearly evident benefits of running Hydro Lines under the Lakes instead of going via either "on land" route...

Manitoba Liberal leader Jon Gerrard is a strong advocate of this, as am I, because with a little long term foresight cable can be lain that will make Manitoba a leader in "green" Hydro Electric for many generations to come and at a cost comparable, if not in fact favourable, to either the west or east on land option...

Remember what was said about "Duff's Ditch" way back when?  Aren't you glad NOW? So why have Manitoban's regressed from being visionary and doing the "smart thing", being "leading edge", being the envy of our neighbours to the south, in something this important?  Speaking about "Duff's Ditch", if it had been me expanding the floodway I'd have added dozens, if not hundreds, of windmills to generate electricity along the entire floodway route, they have windmills in the ocean you know and it's not like the windmills along/in a big ditch would bother anyone or be taking up valuable farm land where you have to pay for a lease, but that's just me thinking "outside the box" again I guess...

One more thing, by making sure that the "cable" is adequately sized to be able to handle more and more capacity as it comes "onstream" from future mega Hydro Projects in Manitoba's North many billions of future dollars can be saved for all Manitobans for many generations to come...

Don't make it "political", just do the SMART thing this time...   

Tax Cuts during Deficit Budgets are Tax Deferrals not Tax Cuts

As a fiscally conservative Liberal with a strong social conscience that hates the GST but hates Deficit Spending even more I have to ask, why did the Harper Regime use the $12 - $17 BILLION dollars the Liberals had set aside to cushion any economic downturns, as happened, to cut 2% off the Mulroney GST?

I always thought "vote buying", which this clearly was, is illegal in the Canadian system of Government...

Furthermore, how did a Conservative "Budget" with a $30 BILLION projected Deficit nearly double to a new record Deficit (Mulroney's $43 BILLION Deficit being the old record) of $56 BILLION?  That's $26 BILLION of unbudgeted spending by a so called "Conservative" Government...  Where did that extra money go?  Why haven't the tough questions been asked by the CTF about that during the last election?  Why wasn't the CTF saying anything about the "Contempt" of the CTF and every Canadian when the Harper Regime refused to answer the "where did the money go" guestions to Parliament precipitating this last election?

"Unbiased" CTF?  I think not...

Please Stop Bi Pole3 From Going on the West Side of the Lake

Dear Canadian TaxpayersI farm west of Portage La Prairie Manitoba and Bi Pole3 is coming on our land there is absolutely no way that this should be happening to agriculture land in this provincethey should be putting this hydro under groundso that the spray planes will be able to spray everyones crops because having these hydro poles above ground the spray planes will not be able to spray our crops because these hydro poles are too huge to manover around and too dangerous,we also live beside Agrium Fertilizer Plant which is located down the Trans Canada Highwaywhich is also another danger point if something was to happened to the train track that goes beside Agrium Fertilizer plantlike if one of these huge wires was to land on the tracks because of a huge windstorm and wreck the switches on the train track and derails a train every one going down the Trans Canada Highway would be affected by the fumes coming from the fertilizer plant.These huge wires will also wreck your water pumps in a lightning storm and will also wreck irregation systems also .We also have rouge around these hydro poles because we are in the pedigreed seed businessand world health organization said if you have to work around these hydro poles for a short period of time these hydro poles will affect your nervous system and if we dont rouge around these hydro poles for noxious weeds you can be put out of businessand there goes your income.We also live in torandoe alley were we see more torandoes are on the west side of lake winnipegthan the east side of lake winnipeg does which is also very dangerous.We also have more carbou herds on the west side of lake winnipeg  and I was told the other day that the carbou herds on the east side will soon be exstinct,and the aborginals on the east side of the lake would like roads so that they can go places and there food doesnt have to be hauled in by airplanes ,and trucks on makeshift roads which is very dangerous the government needs to listen to the aborginals and the farmers we are the people who supply the food to everyone not the stores it comes from the hard working farmers in this province.When RoseAnne WoWChuck the other day called us 2 class citizens that wasirresponsible of her reckless and discrimination to the hard working farmers of this province and the farmers will not be treated that way because we are the ones that put the food on the tables and if you dont have the farmers everyone will starve .It will cost every Manitoba family$7,000.00 more for hydro if it goes on the west side of lake Winnipeg compared to the East side of Lake Winnipegto the United States of America,so please send the hydro on the east side of lake winnipeg it will cost less for every taxpayer in this province.less if it does go that way.Manitoba hydro employees dont want this hydro to go on the west side of lake Winnipeg because they even said it wasnt safe to go this way it is the NDP Government that is forcing them to go this way .Even Garry Doer said that it would be cheaper to go down the east side of Lake Winnipeg before he left for the United States.

                                                                Thankyou

                                                                 Sincerly

                                                                  Pam Pugh

ps These hydro poles will also devalue your land also.

which no one wants to happen neither.

What I know of the geography

What I know of the geography in Manitoba, the mainly dry, flat and easy to excavate route in the western part of the province would be a less costly location to build roads, but most of this construction wouldn't be needed since the province already has many highways and high quality secondary roads in the area.

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misinformation and lies from the ctf

Saying that the west line option is $1B more expensive is misleading, and saying that it is more environmentally damaging is an outright lie.  

You guys are such tools.  

bp3

Another fact to consider is the reliability issue, a west line would provide more insurance against natural disasters such as wind storms ( tornado ) or forest fires ( heavy smoke may trip out the line) which may take out all transmission if they were run parallel to each other.

 

Bipole 3

I agree that the "$1B more expensive" is misleading since the real number is $2.25B over and above the cost of the revenue neutral east side option.

If you disagree with the obvious fact that a transmission line 60% to 70% longer, which completely negates the power from MH's $60 million wind farm in electrical losses, travels through equal or greater sections of boreal forest and wildlife habitat while it dissects approximately 1100 farms, them possibly you could of provided an argument superior to "you guys are such tools".

 

Agreed with below, no more

Agreed with below, no more childish jokes. CTF is a serious movement and has a serious purpose, we dont need stupid humor to make our point. 

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